Paul Reubens did not tell his director, Matt Wolf, that he was dying from cancer.
The actor and comedian, who famously starred as Pee-wee Herman in the 1980s, passed away in 2023 at age 70. Before his death, he gave over 40 hours of interviews on camera about his life and career for a two-part documentary, “Pee-wee as Himself,” now streaming on HBO Max.
“I was scheduled to do a final interview with him the week after Paul Reubens passed away, and we had a conversation a week before he died,” Wolf told Forbes on Monday.
‘PEE-WEE HERMAN’ ACTOR PAUL REUBENS DEAD AT 70
“I could tell something was up with his health, but I didn’t understand the gravity of it,” the filmmaker shared. “I had no reason to believe he was terminally ill, but we had a meaningful private conversation that gave me the assurances I needed to move forward with this film.”
“I left that conversation feeling like it was intense but not thinking too much about it,” Wolf continued. “I found out on Instagram that he [had] died, along with the rest of the world; only a very small group of close friends were aware that he was dying.”
According to Wolf, they spoke about everything — Reubens’ childhood, his complicated relationship with fame, his ambitions, his commitment to his alter-ego, his sexuality, his arrest — except the fact that he had been battling cancer for the past six years.
Wolf told the outlet that from the beginning, Reubens was eager to tell his story.
“When Paul and I met, he started the conversation the same way the film starts, saying, ‘I want to direct a film myself, but everybody’s advising me against it, and I don’t understand why,’” Wolf recalled.
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“I said, ‘Well, I’m here to talk to you about directing a film, so why don’t we get to know each other and see if we can conceive of an approach that would appeal to you.’ That began a very long and involved process of communication, but in that initial meeting, I didn’t relate to Paul as a fan.”
WATCH: PAUL REUBENS WORKED WITH KIDS WITH CANCER BEFORE HIS DEATH: MARK HOLTON
While Wolf admitted that he did not know at what point he felt Reubens trusted him, the star later remarked, “At some point, you just have to take a leap of faith.’”
“He took a leap of faith with me, and I’m grateful for it,” Wolf added.
Wolf told the outlet that he had a question that was never fully answered by Reubens during their lengthy sit-downs.
“It wasn’t that I wanted an answer, but I was working chronologically through Paul’s life in this epic interview, and we stopped before the arrest in Florida,” he explained, referring to the entertainer’s 1991 detention for indecent exposure at an adult movie theater.
At the time, Reubens was handed a small fine, but the damage was incalculable. In 2001, he was arrested and charged with misdemeanor possession of child pornography, which was reduced to an obscenity charge with probation. These are covered in the documentary’s second part.
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“Paul anecdotally discussed that because we had a digressive conversation for over 40 hours, but I wanted to go in more detail through his arrest step by step,” Wolf told the outlet.
“At the end of the film, I wanted to reflect with him, not only about his late career work, but also about how he felt having gone through the full interview about this process, if he did have all the perspective he thought he had, or if he had learned something about himself through the course of telling his full story. He had also been on the record and in the media discussing his second arrest.”
Wolf noted that it was important for the film to have Reubens’ last words in his own voice, as well as for the film to end in his voice.
“The day after Paul Reubens died, I started reading the 1,500-page transcript of my interview with him, and I found significance and meaning and all sorts of things that I wouldn’t have understood before,” said Wolf. “I did encounter what are the last words of ‘Pee-wee as Himself,’ which were profound and moving to me, and they actually were the last things Paul said in the interview.”
“… All these different emotions, all these different influences and factors, stuff that I saw when I was little, I felt like I could somehow give that back,” Reubens reflected in the documentary. “I felt like a good collector of it all. I was like a good vessel for it all.”
“Nothing would stop me,” he shared. “Nothing would deter me that it would be pure in every way. And I think that’s what it was. It’s part of why I feel so proud of it. Because I delivered that. I’ve lived up to that. Not just for you, but for myself.”
Wolf told The Associated Press that in looking back at their final conversations, it was clear that Reubens was “privately contemplating mortality.”
“I was aware that this was an extraordinary situation that was part of the story of the film and that the stakes were the highest I had ever experienced,” said Wolf.
“Pee-wee as Himself” premiered earlier this year at the Sundance Film Festival.
